I am on record as complaining about What Ifs that take place so soon after the event that inspired them. How can address how the long-term consequences would have been different, when we don't even know what the short-term consequences are yet?
Plus, I hate the 21st century's trend towards "premiseless" What Ifs, that just become kind of vague Elseworlds.
So, surprise, surprise, look what turned up last week:
Sigh. Marvel hates me.
What they can't even give me "What If The Avengers Had Lost A Vs. X?" or something like that? I'm going to have to dig into the issue and figure out the premise for myself?
Sigh.
OK, let's take a look...
So Magneto is training Hope instead of Cyclops? Pretty thin gruel to base a What If on.
So, it's "What If The Avengers Show Up En Masse At First Instead Of Just Captain America?"
Or, how about...
So, wait...you're sending Namor AND Magneto in your "diplomatic" delegation? These calm, rational, never start a fight for no reason guys? That's a good idea how?
So I guess the premise is "What If The X-Men Really, Really Stupid?"
Let's see how that worked out:
Yeah, that worked out well.
Oh, and Wolverine killed Storm, because stuff just randomly happens like that.
This makes me long for the good old days when What Ifs made sense...
Showing posts with label Avengers Vs X-Men. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Avengers Vs X-Men. Show all posts
Monday, July 8, 2013
Thursday, April 4, 2013
A Snarky Observation On A Debate Which Should Have Been Over Long Ago
I've made the point before, but just to reiterate...
Yeah, that really, really looks like "Cyclops was right." If you're a Badoon, that is.
From this week's Guardians Of The Galaxy Infinite #3 (free on Comixology!!). Script is by Bendis, so it can't be claimed the author didn't get the point of AvX...
Yeah, that really, really looks like "Cyclops was right." If you're a Badoon, that is.
From this week's Guardians Of The Galaxy Infinite #3 (free on Comixology!!). Script is by Bendis, so it can't be claimed the author didn't get the point of AvX...
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Avengers Vs X-Men,
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Wednesday, October 10, 2012
No, Cyclops Wasn't "Right"
There's been a bit of a meme going around, one I've seen argued in a few different places: that in Avengers Vs. X-Men, "Cyclops was right, Captain America was wrong."
The paraphrased argument goes like this: "Cyclops was right that the Phoenix Force was coming to Earth to possess Hope and restore the mutant race; the Avengers screwed this up by causing the Phoenix Force to be split up into various members of the X-Men; those members did good works whilst waiting for Hope to be ready until the Avengers kidnapped Hope, and only then did they go off the deep end; and once Hope had the Phoenix Force, voila, it restored the mutants. Ipso facto, Cyclops was right, Cap was wrong, and if the Avengers hadn't interfered, this all could have happened right away and Professor X wouldn't have died and everyone would be eating buttered popcorn and listening to 80s New Wave music in a brilliant utopia. So, despite what the authors seemed to intend, Cyclops was the hero of the piece, and Cap the villain."
I've also seen more than one person suggest T-shirts be worn declaring "Cyclops was right" and "Cap was wrong."
Pardon my French, but what a load of fetid dingo's kidneys.
Not to necessarily defend AvX, because Uatu knows, that series was predictable, overlong, rife with poor storytelling and poor editorial coordination, based inexplicable attempts to link the Phoenix to K'un-L'un and chaos magic and gosh knows what else, the "power corrupts" moral was trite, and on the whole the story was generally unimpressive.
But to deconstruct its theme to "Cap was the villain" is something I cannot let stand unanswered, not when such a reading can only be supporting a very selective reading that leaves out the most salient facts.
So, begin FANBOY ENTITLEMENT RANT:
A) The very first pages of AvX #1 give us this:
Secret Avengers #26 shares this moment with us:
And in AvX #4, Thor watches as yet another planet is eaten:
So let's be clear: saying "Cyclops was right" was saying that several planetary genocides are justified, as long as the Phoenix is heading to Earth to restore mutants. The death of billions--trillions?--of sentients is no problem, because Cyclops' race is more important than yours, or any other. As long as mutants don't "go extinct," well, other entire planets going extinct is collateral damage. Screw the rest of the universe!
Cyclops is "right" only if he's history's greatest monster.
B) And let's remember: Cap knew of at least two of these Alderaans, as we saw that they were witnessed by Avengers who would have tweeted their status to him. So against Cyclops' theory--which had absolutely zero evidence, zero precedent, and zero sense--Cap had to balance the CERTAINTY that the Phoenix was destroying every planet it came across. To say "Cap was wrong" is to say that Cap should have said, "Well, we'll just cross our fingers and pray Cyclops' delusional ideology is right and the Phoenix Force is not at all like what we saw 30 seconds ago."
Cyclops theory may have proven to be correct, but only in hindsight. I could say I know what the Powerball numbers will be tonight, and bet all the food and rent money on it. But even if I win, that doesn't mean I was "right"--I was a damn irresponsible fool who got lucky.
And anyone who didn't see the risks and say, "Cyclops, let's discuss this first" isn't fit to lead the Inferior Five, let alone the Avengers. If that says Cap was wrong, I don't wanna be right.
C) The Avengers didn't start the fight. Cyclops struck the first blow, and (as told in the pages of AvX #2) the X-Men immediately followed up by attacking the Helicarrier. The whole mess perhaps could have been avoided, but responsibility lies with Cyclops, not Cap.
D) Hope wasn't going along with Cyclops' plan. She fled BOTH the X-Men and Avengers, hiding from everyone. And once they got to the moon, she decided she couldn't handle it, and asked Wolverine to kill her lest she run amok, and she rejected the Force :
This was before Tony Stark "disrupted" the Phoenix Force, so it wasn't the Avengers' fault--Hope wasn't ready (and doubtless the consequences of the Phoenix possessing her at this point would have been at least as disastrous as what did happen...see more below).
And let's be clear--it wasn't that the Avengers interfered: Hope rejected the power, as Cyclops likes to taunt her with:
E) The narrative of the meme simply isn't true. The Avengers did not kidnap Hope, the "Phoenix Five" did.
As seen above, she rejected the Phoenix, and she wanted to stay with the Avengers. Cyclops said no.
Hope herself said she was a victim here--she doesn't think she was rescued:
She was their prisoner. And despite Scott's promises that she could leave when she wanted, the second she wanted to:
So, again, the Avengers did NOT kidnap Hope. She was a prisoner, chose to leave with them, and Cyclops used force to try and make her stay, and upturned the world trying to get her back.
F) And as for the "preparing her," "making her ready for the Phoenix," the Phoenix Five promised? That's exactly what they didn't do:
It was the Avengers her took her to K'un-L'un, and gave her the training necessary to master the Phoenix Force. If you think the ending of the series was right, it was 100% the Avengers doing, not Cyclops. The Phoenix Five imprisoned her, berated her, mocked her, and did nothing that they promised to do. If the Avengers hadn't taken her away from that, mutants would never have been restored.
G) When Hope finally did get the Phoenix Force, guess what?
She wasn't any different than when Cyclops et. al. had it. She has the power, she knows how to use it right, etc.
This is undoubtedly what would have happened had she gotten the power initially instead of the X-Douches: the EXACT same arc, "ooh, I've got the power, I'm gonna do good, ooh I'm the god, oh, I'm gonna squish you now." It would have turned out precisely the same.
Nope, it was only the intervention of the Scarlet Witch--which Scott so strenuously opposed--that enabled the happy ending:
You may interpret that last panel how you like, but it sure looks as if Hope couldn't have done what she did without Wanda's assistance, both emotionally, and perhaps with some of Wanda's power, too.
Regardless, if Scott had had his way, this could NOT have happened.
H) Even if you disagree with everything I've written, why blame Cap? Yes, he lead the Avengers. But he was hardly alone in his opinion. Wolverine was far more gung ho against Scott than Cap, and he drove events during the crisis just as much as Cap. Hank McCoy opposed Scott. T'Challa. Iron Man. Everyone in K'un-L'un. Wanda and Pietro. Charles Xavier, for heaven's sake.
To summarize it as "Cap was the villain" is ridiculously over-simplistic at best. Gratuitous Cap-bashing does a disservice to the story (as feeble as I thought it may have been). This wasn't Civil War...it was a vast majority of the world's heroes (including many mutants) who feared Scott was going to destroy the world based on a foolish dream.
So if the Avengers hadn't intervened, Hope wouldn't have been able to master the power, and the world would likely be in just as much trouble as it was under the Phoenix Five--she was ready to be just as corrupted by absolute power. Even though Scott turned out to be right, he went about it the wrong way, didn't listen to anyone, and ignored the only steps that could have made his plan succeed. That's not the "hero" of the story, by any reasonable definition.
END OF EXTENDED FANBOY RANT
The paraphrased argument goes like this: "Cyclops was right that the Phoenix Force was coming to Earth to possess Hope and restore the mutant race; the Avengers screwed this up by causing the Phoenix Force to be split up into various members of the X-Men; those members did good works whilst waiting for Hope to be ready until the Avengers kidnapped Hope, and only then did they go off the deep end; and once Hope had the Phoenix Force, voila, it restored the mutants. Ipso facto, Cyclops was right, Cap was wrong, and if the Avengers hadn't interfered, this all could have happened right away and Professor X wouldn't have died and everyone would be eating buttered popcorn and listening to 80s New Wave music in a brilliant utopia. So, despite what the authors seemed to intend, Cyclops was the hero of the piece, and Cap the villain."
I've also seen more than one person suggest T-shirts be worn declaring "Cyclops was right" and "Cap was wrong."
Pardon my French, but what a load of fetid dingo's kidneys.
Not to necessarily defend AvX, because Uatu knows, that series was predictable, overlong, rife with poor storytelling and poor editorial coordination, based inexplicable attempts to link the Phoenix to K'un-L'un and chaos magic and gosh knows what else, the "power corrupts" moral was trite, and on the whole the story was generally unimpressive.
But to deconstruct its theme to "Cap was the villain" is something I cannot let stand unanswered, not when such a reading can only be supporting a very selective reading that leaves out the most salient facts.
So, begin FANBOY ENTITLEMENT RANT:
A) The very first pages of AvX #1 give us this:
Secret Avengers #26 shares this moment with us:
And in AvX #4, Thor watches as yet another planet is eaten:
So let's be clear: saying "Cyclops was right" was saying that several planetary genocides are justified, as long as the Phoenix is heading to Earth to restore mutants. The death of billions--trillions?--of sentients is no problem, because Cyclops' race is more important than yours, or any other. As long as mutants don't "go extinct," well, other entire planets going extinct is collateral damage. Screw the rest of the universe!
Cyclops is "right" only if he's history's greatest monster.
B) And let's remember: Cap knew of at least two of these Alderaans, as we saw that they were witnessed by Avengers who would have tweeted their status to him. So against Cyclops' theory--which had absolutely zero evidence, zero precedent, and zero sense--Cap had to balance the CERTAINTY that the Phoenix was destroying every planet it came across. To say "Cap was wrong" is to say that Cap should have said, "Well, we'll just cross our fingers and pray Cyclops' delusional ideology is right and the Phoenix Force is not at all like what we saw 30 seconds ago."
Cyclops theory may have proven to be correct, but only in hindsight. I could say I know what the Powerball numbers will be tonight, and bet all the food and rent money on it. But even if I win, that doesn't mean I was "right"--I was a damn irresponsible fool who got lucky.
And anyone who didn't see the risks and say, "Cyclops, let's discuss this first" isn't fit to lead the Inferior Five, let alone the Avengers. If that says Cap was wrong, I don't wanna be right.
C) The Avengers didn't start the fight. Cyclops struck the first blow, and (as told in the pages of AvX #2) the X-Men immediately followed up by attacking the Helicarrier. The whole mess perhaps could have been avoided, but responsibility lies with Cyclops, not Cap.
D) Hope wasn't going along with Cyclops' plan. She fled BOTH the X-Men and Avengers, hiding from everyone. And once they got to the moon, she decided she couldn't handle it, and asked Wolverine to kill her lest she run amok, and she rejected the Force :
This was before Tony Stark "disrupted" the Phoenix Force, so it wasn't the Avengers' fault--Hope wasn't ready (and doubtless the consequences of the Phoenix possessing her at this point would have been at least as disastrous as what did happen...see more below).
And let's be clear--it wasn't that the Avengers interfered: Hope rejected the power, as Cyclops likes to taunt her with:
E) The narrative of the meme simply isn't true. The Avengers did not kidnap Hope, the "Phoenix Five" did.
As seen above, she rejected the Phoenix, and she wanted to stay with the Avengers. Cyclops said no.
Hope herself said she was a victim here--she doesn't think she was rescued:
She was their prisoner. And despite Scott's promises that she could leave when she wanted, the second she wanted to:
So, again, the Avengers did NOT kidnap Hope. She was a prisoner, chose to leave with them, and Cyclops used force to try and make her stay, and upturned the world trying to get her back.
F) And as for the "preparing her," "making her ready for the Phoenix," the Phoenix Five promised? That's exactly what they didn't do:
It was the Avengers her took her to K'un-L'un, and gave her the training necessary to master the Phoenix Force. If you think the ending of the series was right, it was 100% the Avengers doing, not Cyclops. The Phoenix Five imprisoned her, berated her, mocked her, and did nothing that they promised to do. If the Avengers hadn't taken her away from that, mutants would never have been restored.
G) When Hope finally did get the Phoenix Force, guess what?
She wasn't any different than when Cyclops et. al. had it. She has the power, she knows how to use it right, etc.
This is undoubtedly what would have happened had she gotten the power initially instead of the X-Douches: the EXACT same arc, "ooh, I've got the power, I'm gonna do good, ooh I'm the god, oh, I'm gonna squish you now." It would have turned out precisely the same.
Nope, it was only the intervention of the Scarlet Witch--which Scott so strenuously opposed--that enabled the happy ending:
You may interpret that last panel how you like, but it sure looks as if Hope couldn't have done what she did without Wanda's assistance, both emotionally, and perhaps with some of Wanda's power, too.
Regardless, if Scott had had his way, this could NOT have happened.
H) Even if you disagree with everything I've written, why blame Cap? Yes, he lead the Avengers. But he was hardly alone in his opinion. Wolverine was far more gung ho against Scott than Cap, and he drove events during the crisis just as much as Cap. Hank McCoy opposed Scott. T'Challa. Iron Man. Everyone in K'un-L'un. Wanda and Pietro. Charles Xavier, for heaven's sake.
To summarize it as "Cap was the villain" is ridiculously over-simplistic at best. Gratuitous Cap-bashing does a disservice to the story (as feeble as I thought it may have been). This wasn't Civil War...it was a vast majority of the world's heroes (including many mutants) who feared Scott was going to destroy the world based on a foolish dream.
So if the Avengers hadn't intervened, Hope wouldn't have been able to master the power, and the world would likely be in just as much trouble as it was under the Phoenix Five--she was ready to be just as corrupted by absolute power. Even though Scott turned out to be right, he went about it the wrong way, didn't listen to anyone, and ignored the only steps that could have made his plan succeed. That's not the "hero" of the story, by any reasonable definition.
END OF EXTENDED FANBOY RANT
Posted by
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at
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Labels:
Avengers Vs X-Men,
Captain America,
Cyclops,
Hope,
Phoenix
Thursday, August 30, 2012
Just when You Thought It Was Safe To Go Back Into The Comic Shop...
This ad appeared in a number of Marvel titles yesterday:
Come again?
Seriously, Marvel? The climax of AvX, the grand finale of the series "everything has been building to for ten years," the biggest event in the history of mankind...
...and the best you can do is crib the tagline from Highlander?
(Of course, they've already cribbed the plot from Highlander and Rising Stars, so why not, right?)
What's next? Will future Marvel events be advertised "In Space No One Can Here You Scream"??
Maybe "This Time It's Personal"?? "You'll Believe A Man Can Fly"?!? "Life Is Like A Box Of Chocolates"?!?
C'mon, Marvel...that's just plain embarrassing in its laziness.
...and the best you can do is crib the tagline from Highlander?
(Of course, they've already cribbed the plot from Highlander and Rising Stars, so why not, right?)
What's next? Will future Marvel events be advertised "In Space No One Can Here You Scream"??
Maybe "This Time It's Personal"?? "You'll Believe A Man Can Fly"?!? "Life Is Like A Box Of Chocolates"?!?
C'mon, Marvel...that's just plain embarrassing in its laziness.
Wednesday, June 27, 2012
Maybe He Should Have Written A To-Do List...
Did you every have something really, really REALLY important you had to do, but then you got caught up in other stuff and kind of forgot what it was?
Remember how, throughout Avengers Vs. X-Men, Cyclops has been an incredibly single-minded butt-head, because there was one super-important reason to allow the Phoenix Force to come to Earth?
The Phoenix Force was rebirth, and it was going to undo the Scarlet Witch's erasing of 99% of the world's mutants. Nothing was more important than this--NOTHING!!
So...the flaming bird thingie shows up, but instead of possessing Hope, it takes over the main team of X-Men. And of course, the very first thing Scott does is restore all the mutants, right?
Uh..."every" goal, Scott? What about...?
Well, yeah, food is nice, but your first priority was...
All right, water and energy are cool, but so far you haven't resurrected a single mutant, have you?
Well, yes, disarming the world is good...but wasn't preserving your race your entire reason for welcoming Phoenix?
Yeah, Pax Utopia, great...but are you ever going to get around to re-empowering the 99%ers?
Hello? Scott??
(And is Captain America--or anyone--going to point out to Cyclops that he's lost the mission?)
Remember how, throughout Avengers Vs. X-Men, Cyclops has been an incredibly single-minded butt-head, because there was one super-important reason to allow the Phoenix Force to come to Earth?
Hello? Scott??
(And is Captain America--or anyone--going to point out to Cyclops that he's lost the mission?)
Tuesday, April 24, 2012
Rashomon II?
Fanboy Entitlement Rant:
We've been told ad infinitum that Avengers vs. X-Men is "the culmination of a ten year story" and that "it's the biggest, most important tal"e they've ever told, and yada yada yada.
If that were true, you would have thought that they would have been a little more careful in actually presenting that story.
Let's start with the end of AvX #1 three weeks ago (scripted by Bendis, drawn by Romita Jr). Cyclops strikes the first blow...
c
Cap calls out the famous line...
And everyone just stands around looking pensive...
Fade to black.
Two weeks ago, we get New Avengers #24's version of what comes next, scripted by the very same Bendis, drawn by Mike Deodato. Cap calls assemble, and Red Hulk immediately drill sergeants the Avengers into action:

OK, fair enough. Not far off from what AvX #1 showed us, certainly well within the lines of dramatic license.
And then AvX #2 hit last week, scripted by Jason Aaron and drawn by Romita.
Instead of immediately leaping into action, the Avengers just stand around chatting. Yup, Cap call "Avengers Assemble", and they just sit around talking like a Bendis issue of Avengers...
Meanwhile, in the very next panel...
Yup, in this version, it's the X-Men making the first major move. To heck with Red Hulk leading them into battle, declaring that life on Earth depended on them beating the X-Men now...they just stayed on the Helicarrier, and the X-Men came to them!
And all the aggression continued to come from the mutant camp..
Look, this isn't minor nitpicking. These are two mutually exclusive depictions of the same event (and for all I know, the X-Titles showed a third...)! Either the Avengers leaped of the helicarrier into battle the second that Cyclops attacked Cap, or they stood there patiently (hoping for cooler heads to prevail?) while Colossus came up and smashed their ride and knocked them down to Earth.
Sure, maybe they meant it as a Rashomon experience. Sure.
It should be noted, these stories all had the same assistant editor, the same associate editor, and the same editor. You'd think that, at a minimum, they'd be in charge of making sure the stories synched up at least a little bit.
I can picture a completely fictional version of the editorial meeting with completely fictional editors going something like this:
Maybe in AvX #3, we can get an AR code of hologram Axel Alonso explaining these two versions can co-exist...
End of rant.
We've been told ad infinitum that Avengers vs. X-Men is "the culmination of a ten year story" and that "it's the biggest, most important tal"e they've ever told, and yada yada yada.
If that were true, you would have thought that they would have been a little more careful in actually presenting that story.
Let's start with the end of AvX #1 three weeks ago (scripted by Bendis, drawn by Romita Jr). Cyclops strikes the first blow...
c
Two weeks ago, we get New Avengers #24's version of what comes next, scripted by the very same Bendis, drawn by Mike Deodato. Cap calls assemble, and Red Hulk immediately drill sergeants the Avengers into action:
And then AvX #2 hit last week, scripted by Jason Aaron and drawn by Romita.
Instead of immediately leaping into action, the Avengers just stand around chatting. Yup, Cap call "Avengers Assemble", and they just sit around talking like a Bendis issue of Avengers...
And all the aggression continued to come from the mutant camp..
Sure, maybe they meant it as a Rashomon experience. Sure.
It should be noted, these stories all had the same assistant editor, the same associate editor, and the same editor. You'd think that, at a minimum, they'd be in charge of making sure the stories synched up at least a little bit.
I can picture a completely fictional version of the editorial meeting with completely fictional editors going something like this:
ASSISTANT EDITOR: Guys, we've got a problem. Theses two issues tell completely conflicting stories!!
ASSOCIATE EDITOR: And that's a problem how?
ASSISTANT EDITOR: Well, we have to go to Bendis and Aaron, have them change some dialogue, get a few pages redrawn...
ASSOCIATE EDITOR: Hahahahaha!
ASSISTANT EDITOR: What's so funny?
EDITOR: Dude, we're only editors. They're ARCHITECTS. They outrank us. We can't ask them to change their work for mere considerations of making sense!!
ASSISTANT EDITOR: But the fans will mock us!
ASSOCIATE EDITOR: 99% of them won't notice. And 100% of them will still fork over their money. So there's no problem!
ASSISTANT EDITOR: But we'll look like idiots when it's collected in trade!?!
EDITOR: They'll be collected in separate trades initially, the main AvX and the New Avengers and Avengers etc., so no one will notice. In hardback first. Then paperback. It will be two years before it's all collected together, and by then no one will care.
ASSISTANT EDITOR: But isn't part of our job to make sure this major event, taking place over multiple books, links up? That the story makes sense, and works?
EDITOR: One more time--you DO NOT edit an ARCHITECT. Now don't wake me for this nonsense again!
Maybe in AvX #3, we can get an AR code of hologram Axel Alonso explaining these two versions can co-exist...
End of rant.
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