Лыжина Светлана Сергеевна : другие произведения.

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  • © Copyright Лыжина Светлана Сергеевна (sergeevna2@yandex.ru)
  • Размещен: 31/05/2017, изменен: 07/06/2017. 9k. Статистика.
  • Стихотворение: Поэзия, Переводы
    		• ОБСУЖДЕНИЯ: Поэзия (последние)
    22:05 Ковалевская А. "Красная турбо-лошадь" (40/17)
    22:04 Чваков Д. "Итак... а" (2/1)
    21:56 Калинин А.А. "Басенки 2025-12" (6/1)
    21:55 Егорыч "Бойцовый кот" (126/2)
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    23:17 "Форум: все за 12 часов" (280/101)
    22:52 "Диалоги о Творчестве" (623/9)
    07/01 "Технические вопросы "Самиздата"" (384)
    06/12 "Форум: Литературные объявления" (686)
    25/11 "О блокировании "Самиздата"" (294)
    ОБСУЖДАЕМ: Лыжина С.С.
    00:56 "Дракулов пир" (7/1)
    00:51 "Принцесса Иляна" (24/1)
    23/12 "История о живом мертвеце" (17)
    23/12 "Мои ресницы-тучи, о любимый, " (45)
    15/11 "Информация о владельце раздела" (15)
    25/10 "Злой юмор Дракулы - письмо " (5)
    08/10 "Дракула и два ворона" (40)
    02/08 "Последние дни Константинополя. " (4)
    02/08 "Вдова Дракулы... Приложение " (47)
    02/08 "Предисловие переводчика" (28)
    14/05 "Я стал ленив, любимая. И всё " (11)
    09/03 "Личная жизнь Дракулы до 1462 " (16)
    29/02 "Дракула на войне. Часть 3. " (14)
    12/07 "Дракула и брашовяне. Часть " (7)
    09/07 "Последние дни Константинополя. " (6)
    08/07 "Таинственная смерть Дракулы - " (11)
    08/07 "Дракула и купцы" (7)
    08/07 "На истинном пути мы можем " (17)
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    24/12 "Трепещут души, если утром " (25)
    21/12 "Я раб царя. Пленить он может " (9)
    30/11 "Любимый, если я дерзну тоску " (5)
    21/05 "Неудивительно, что сердце " (6)
    17/05 "Мне расставание - как яд, " (4)
    30/04 "Влад Дракулович" (34)
    02/04 "Смотри! Тюрк из Китая чашу " (10)
    06/03 "Когда влюблён, к дверям любимой " (8)
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    19/02 "Твоя краса готова взглядами " (4)
    14/02 "Что если всю свою безмерную " (4)
    21/12 "О, как лицо твоё прекрасно! " (2)
    15/03 "Вдова Дракулы... Приложение " (2)
    27/12 "История из старинной жизни" (6)
    30/05 "Что если бы красивые кокетство " (2)
    28/01 "Дракула и брашовяне. Часть " (27)
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    08/11 "Богоугодные дела Дракулы" (14)
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    13/06 "Дракула и брашовяне. Часть " (2)
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    30/06 "Дракула и брашовяне. Часть " (5)
    26/02 "История ненависти. Приложение " (2)
    03/02 "История ненависти. Приложение " (6)
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    28/01 "Жизнь Дракулы от 7 до 14 лет - " (1)
    23/01 "Ты поначалу так меня боялась..." (6)
    23/01 "Я не хочу продлить самообман..." (5)
    04/12 "Жизнь Дракулы от рождения " (2)
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    27/11 "Жизнь Дракулы в Турции - мифы " (2)
    27/11 "Дракула и митрополит Макарий" (2)
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    ОБСУЖДЕНИЯ: (все обсуждения) (последние)
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    22:23 Березина Е.Л. "Под ногами" (6/4)
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    22:11 Николаев М.П. "Телохранители" (258/8)
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    22:04 Чваков Д. "Итак... а" (2/1)
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    8. Isa Bela 2019/02/24 21:19 [ответить]
      > > 7.Лыжина Светлана Сергеевна
      >> > 6.Isa Bela
      >>> > 5.Isa Bela
      >>I know this "parting" pattern is frequent, but, really, if we take other pieces of the puzzle (long black curls, king of my heart etc.), what do we have?
      >As we know, Radu wasn't the only prince who became the beloved of the Sultan. So "king" is not necessary means "Radu".
      
      Radu was the only real ruler as long as we know. The only one who was anointed, and crowned (haha many times!). He is Shah.
      
      
      
      >>long curly hair (and it happens to be black)
      >But you should know that in this poetry black color, when it's used in description of the beloved, means that the beloved is cruel.
      
      A hair of the colour of the Nights of Israel: is he singing a cruel lover? He does it quite often, of course, Avni does. But not all times. See, he uses grenades for the lips he loves, but also for tears of pain. So colours could very well be used to denote either intangible and tangible things.
      
      
      >>parting with Radu was difficult, and then he bleeds, and cries, and so on, waiting for hamazan/hamadan to finish, and longing for the happy time when his beloved will come as a guest
      >So you think that 23rd ghazal is also about Radu - not about young Ishak-bey (Sigismund)?
      >http://samlib.ru/l/lyzhina_s_s/mehmetpoet_23.shtml
      
      I am almost sure that the ghazals were written for his Muse. Not for all the people who crossed his path.
      For instance, g.16. There is a blackheaded pagan which I cant decide on whom he is. Although the scene is a little similar to the "Turk from China" scene, there is a difference: he starts crying for grenade lips, which is not available at the moment, and it seems that he spots someone who has drink a lot and is actually hitting on him/Mehmed. And he describes the sex scene very quickly, but soon he finds himself crying and wanting to forget (red poppies >> forgetfulness) the owner of those grenade lips mentioned in the 1st couplet.
      It is very well hidden. He was an able manipulator of thoughts and words!
      
      
    7. *Лыжина Светлана Сергеевна (sergeevna2@yandex.ru) 2019/02/24 18:47 [ответить]
      > > 6.Isa Bela
      >> > 5.Isa Bela
      >>> > 4.Лыжина Светлана Сергеевна
      
      >I know this "parting" pattern is frequent, but, really, if we take other pieces of the puzzle (long black curls, king of my heart etc.), what do we have?
      As we know, Radu wasn't the only prince who became the beloved of the Sultan. So "king" is not necessary means "Radu".
      >long curly hair (and it happens to be black)
      But you should know that in this poetry black color, when it's used in description of the beloved, means that the beloved is cruel.
      >parting with Radu was difficult, and then he bleeds, and cries, and so on, waiting for hamazan/hamadan to finish, and longing for the happy time when his beloved will come as a guest
      So you think that 23rd ghazal is also about Radu - not about young Ishak-bey (Sigismund)?
      http://samlib.ru/l/lyzhina_s_s/mehmetpoet_23.shtml
      
    6. Isa Bela 2019/02/21 08:55 [ответить]
      > > 5.Isa Bela
      >> > 4.Лыжина Светлана Сергеевна
      >>> > 3.Isa Bela
      >>>I think the "Frankish, infidel, black-haired, Isa-like, black-cloaked, moon-faced troublesome creature" is, in fact, Radu the Handsome.
      >>
      >>But Mehmed met Radu not in Galata.
      >>And the cross which is mentioned in the poem about Frankish man was weared over the clothes. Otherwise Mehmed couldn't see it. But the cross over the clothes is an atribute of a priest.
      
      I dont have the English translations, and Google Translator, which I have started to hate, does not help. But, you see, I have been reading the ghazals and they seem to be a gathering of patterned images, but, on the background, there is the true idea.
      And, as much as I managed, there is one common idea in some ghazals: "I suffer because of longing for you. I cant wait for the day/night we will meet again."
      I know this "parting" pattern is frequent, but, really, if we take other pieces of the puzzle (long black curls, king of my heart etc.), what do we have?
      We have a Frankish voivode with long curly hair (and it happens to be black) coming over to pay the tribute to his liege, who is also his lover. And the meeting between both is a highly expected event - and Mehmed drinks, and dreams, and thinks he scents the smell of his curls and so on. He says: 'the poison of separation was too strong', among other things.
      So, for me, he wrote these in the 60's, when it is known that he has settled a bit on his home, and could give himself to his poetry. And, of course, parting with Radu was difficult, and then he bleeds, and cries, and so on, waiting for hamazan/hamadan to finish, and longing for the happy time when his beloved will come as a guest, and the fasting will end. The cure for his suffering heart, as we know, is the guest's sherbet :))
      
      
      
      
      
    5. Isa Bela 2019/02/20 00:26 [ответить]
      > > 4.Лыжина Светлана Сергеевна
      >> > 3.Isa Bela
      >>> > 2.Лыжина Светлана Сергеевна
      >>I think the "Frankish, infidel, black-haired, Isa-like, black-cloaked, moon-faced troublesome creature" is, in fact, Radu the Handsome.
      >
      >But Mehmed met Radu not in Galata.
      >And the cross which is mentioned in the poem about Frankish man was weared over the clothes. Otherwise Mehmed couldn't see it. But the cross over the clothes is an atribute of a priest.
      
      I dont have the English translations, and Google Translator, which I have started to hate, does not help. But, you see, I have been reading the ghazals and they seem to be a gathering of patterned images, but, on the background, there is the true idea.
      And, as much as I managed, there is one common idea in some ghazals: "I suffer because of longing for you. I cant wait for the day/night we will meet again."
      I know this "parting" pattern is frequent, but, really, if we take other pieces of the puzzle (long black curls, king of my heart etc.), What do we have?
      We have a long black haired Frankish voivode coming over to pay the tax due to his liege (and the fact that the liege in question is the poet is just a tiny detail...). And the meeting between both is a highly expected event.
      There are, of course, flashbacks, like the ghazal that may be Mehmed's putting in words the 1451's episode.
      
      
      
    4. *Лыжина Светлана Сергеевна (sergeevna2@yandex.ru) 2019/02/19 17:08 [ответить]
      > > 3.Isa Bela
      >> > 2.Лыжина Светлана Сергеевна
      >>> > 1.Isa Bela
      >I think the "Frankish, infidel, black-haired, Isa-like, black-cloaked, moon-faced troublesome creature" is, in fact, Radu the Handsome.
      
      But Mehmed met Radu not in Galata.
      And the cross which is mentioned in the poem about Frankish man was weared over the clothes. Otherwise Mehmed couldn't see it. But the cross over the clothes is an atribute of a priest.
      
    3. Isa Bela 2019/02/19 16:13 [ответить]
      > > 2.Лыжина Светлана Сергеевна
      >> > 1.Isa Bela
      >>So maybe, who knows, we have an interesting new approach of the episode...
      >Oh, I'm glad that you (as me) link this ghazal with the story of Radu.
      >I do believe that here we see Mehmed's reflextion after this story
      
      Oh, I go far beyond :))))
      I think the "Frankish, infidel, black-haired, Isa-like, black-cloaked, moon-faced troublesome creature" is, in fact, Radu the Handsome. But then that's me....
      It sounds like a mix of Shakespeare's Sonnets, because Shakespeare writes about a fair, angel-like, beautiful and good man, but also addresses his worse, black spirit -- in Sh's, it is a woman.
      Mehmed writes odes to this person, whom he worships, and calls "angel" and "light", and "heart's friend", but can also be very annoyed, and submissive to his torment's wimms. It is indeed strange...
      
      
    2. *Лыжина Светлана Сергеевна (sergeevna2@yandex.ru) 2019/02/19 15:53 [ответить]
      > > 1.Isa Bela
      >So maybe, who knows, we have an interesting new approach of the episode...
      Oh, I'm glad that you (as me) link this ghazal with the story of Radu.
      I do believe that here we see Mehmed's reflextion after this story
      
    1. Isa Bela 2019/02/18 22:37 [ответить]
      "We do not know for what reason Radu stayed with Mehmed after Mehmed, "aspiring for a kiss, was seduced by the charms of the body."
      
      Maybe because Radu accepted the kiss (after all, he *did* follow Mehmed to his private chambers!), but was taken aback by young Mehmed's "aspirations of the body", about which he writes that he should have kept to himself. So maybe, who knows, we have an interesting new approach of the episode...

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